Religious Debate

"Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people's suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal." The Dalai Lama.


so the debate.....
see: http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=16194128&blogID=347286164&indicate=1

okay....
my thoughts....

like rabbit i need to give background.
i grew up in an extremely religious family. my dad is a devote Christian - part of the Religious Right politically (Opposed to abortion, pornography, and what it views as the marginalizing of religion in American public life, the Religious Right has also championed prayer in the public schools.)(Republican yes i am involving politics because to me they go hand in hand) and my sister fell in line with that. going to church, youth groups, and taking Christ into her heart. My mom was a witness until she was 12 and retains those ideas and beliefs....though she does not actively practice or attend church, politically she is very very Liberal (Democrat, she is Pro-Choice and against anything religious in schools. Just for the record my parents really never should have gotten married.) I was an outcast from the beginning. refusing to believe or even consider anything my dad believed or suggested. (if you know me well you know why i could not look to my dad or his beliefs. So I favored liberalism politically and grew up open minded and rather anti-religion.
now i did attend church - with my sister on occasion when my parents were fighting - we would go with a friend and for a while i was nervous and hesitant to participate. i did however except Christ. unlike rabbit i did not feel as though i was filling anything. i felt that i was cheating myself and lying to a Person/God/Higher Being because i did not fully understand what i was agreeing to, nor did i understand the consequences of my actions. i began to refuse to go to church and would lock myself in my room instead. When i got to high school i entered classes on religion and began to study and read and learn as much as possible. Religion is a fascinating topic and though i dont and will probably never understand, comprehend, or apply every religion. i have studied all major religions and have at the very least basic understandings of the backgrounds, histories, and beliefs of those religions. to this day the subject enthralls me. so thats where i am coming from in all this. from a scholars point of view and a rebellious teenager. as well as someone completely devote and involved in her religious beliefs.

now everyone has defined atheism and agnosticism but no one has defined religion itself. i think its crucial and should be established.
definitions:
1. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects.
2.the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices
3.something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience

by these definitions atheism is a religion. the belief that god does not exist is a belief. it may not comply with "normal" standards of belief but it is one. it is a RELIGION!

**"When people believe there religion and there god to be infallible is when religion begins to counter its basic purpose. People begin to despise other people for there religious beliefs and it end up creating enemy, and inevitable wars, and killing. THATS what i despise about religion."
- war is inevitable no matter what. whether it is based on religion or not doesnt make a difference. people always think they are right regardless of faith. Now there are wars based on religion and belief but not all. Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, Iraqi "Conflict" all wars the US has been involved with, all wars not involving religion, just power, politics, and well ignorance.

**"When some writtin book, or some preacher tells its followers that, for whatever reason you are better then them for whatever reason, is going to far. Im not saying that any specific religion is like this, but in the past this has been the outcome of religion."
- dont lie you were thinking about the Christian faith. but moving past that "the outcome of religion" is that people think they are better. think they are right. now youre right to an extent - in that people do think they are right - but again thats in everything... I believe that brownie pie is THE best pie at VI and you know what? I AM SOOOOO RIGHT. now you can try and contradict me but to me and maybe me alone brownie pie IS the best pie.

**"what isn’t our ‘cup of tea’"
- i love that phrase. i love it because it is a perfect analogy for why a certain person doesnt enjoy/like/prefer something. I cant stand cannot stand Chai tea. i cant i have tried and tried and tried to like it but i cant do it. its just not my "cup of tea" (lol ha ha ha sorry) anyway. what is right for you may not be right for someone else. Leah loves Chai loves it. but what is right for her is not right for me. religion is an individual based faith - or should be rather. Any person has the right to choose for themselves what they believe and how to express that belief. I am a devote Agnostic. sounds weird i know but its the truth. for my entire life i have struggled with this issue. calling myself everything from an atheist to a wiccan to a christian. i have said it all and honestly i was ignorant of my own life, feelings, and beliefs. my faith has wavered so much because i was not in tune with who i was. moving away from me. take my mom for instance. raised a witness - no christmas no birthdays no halloween no celebration because it the bible says that no one should celebrate anything or anyone but him. so for 12 years my mom was without any celebration. when she finally got old enough to understand she was able to choose for herself how she wanted to worship and what she wanted to believe. so she started to celebrate (thank goodness because i could not live without halloween!) anyway she still has many if not all of those beliefs but chooses to exercise them her own way. my aunt is a devote DEVOTE witness and refuses to even be around a celebration. she chose to follow the "rules" of her faith. religion is based on who you are. and if you happen to find that church or faith or the monastery in the mountains of Nepal that believes, and practices the way you do - then you can surround yourself with the people who agree with you.

**"Why does a person naturally, consiously and subconsioulsy, want morals?"
**"He is a good moral person, but an athiest. I see hypocracy."

The term "morality" generally refers to a system of personal conduct which differentiates between right and wrong actions.
- i also love this debate. do you have to be religious in order to be moral?
exhibit A - Hitler, a Christian + killed over 6 million Jews = not so moral
exhibit B - Buddhist Monks + beating Christian priests in Sri Lanka = yeah no
(http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/apr2004/jhu-a01.shtml, http://www.tamileelamnews.com/cgi-bin/news/exec/view.cgi/1/1557, http://www.tamilcanadian.com/page.php?cat=111&id=1495)
exhibit C - Benjamin Franklin + separated virtue, morality, and faith from organized religion + didnt kill anyone = a little bit more moral...
Now morality is defined by laws of authority and the individual combined. a person cant just decide what is right for them and do it (if it doesnt follow the rules of society). a guy cant just rape and murder a girl because HE feels it is morally right. at the same time the government cant say what is moral and what is not. they cannot say that because i choose to not practice religion i am not a moral person. (our government at least). its a complex double edged sword. now a person can go against the "rules" of society/the morals of the government and choose to kill someone but they have to be willing to pay the price society requires. if you have no doubt that what you are doing is moral then you should respect and accept the consequences of your actions. that is the world we live in.

**"In my life: most [friends] are athiest.
Its because its easy.. or try to control thier lives.. they watch it crash and burn [because really its not your plan]...or its how they were raised. They blame all the bad on God, and do not even think he could be part of the good. they think it takes away thier fun. "The hardest path is the best" a quote i live by."(Roshielle) - "Woah, this is totally wrong, its can't be true because, by YOUR definition (Atheism is characterized by an absence of belief in the existence of gods) they can't blame god, he doesn't exist. You really need to make sure your friends aren't agnostic. There can't be a blame on something that doesn't exist" (Rabbit)
- on this issue i totally agree with Rabbit. if god doesnt exist you cant blame him/her for your issues/bad. enough said


i think everything else has been covered....
if i missed something ill edit tomorrow or well later today.
night.